tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post7083266775683620076..comments2024-03-20T16:46:13.343-04:00Comments on Marly Youmans / The Palace at 2:00 a.m. / poems, stories, novels: A failure of imagination--Marly Youmanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-64880924147663468822012-10-10T17:09:37.954-04:002012-10-10T17:09:37.954-04:00Hi Burgess--
Glad you liked it--the changes in at...Hi Burgess--<br /><br />Glad you liked it--the changes in attitude toward people who hold opinions different from one's own have changed radically in my lifetime. And I think that's sad, particularly in academia, which used to be quite varied.<br /><br />I have a cousin Marion in Florida, but she's from the Morris side of my family...<br /><br />My understanding is that all who bear Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-76402954053228462402012-10-10T16:45:27.945-04:002012-10-10T16:45:27.945-04:00Marly: Thank you for your kind and compassionate c...Marly: Thank you for your kind and compassionate comment. I've recently been reading essays here and there re: the ironic condescension expressed by liberals toward their conservative counterparts. Out of curiosity, do you know if you are related in any way to someone named Marion Youmans who used to live in Florida? If so, we may be related! Burgessneedle@gmail.comBurgesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00796931065600840463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-66105293472916944642012-10-03T00:54:27.268-04:002012-10-03T00:54:27.268-04:00Dickens and and his pal Wilkie Collins of the morg...Dickens and and his pal Wilkie Collins of the morganatic marriage . . . they certainly were wilder than their times. And Dickens is wonderful on class and poverty.<br /><br />Now I'm thinking of our own Cooper of Cooperstown, with all his litigations and political points.<br /><br />I've never been all that interested in writers' lives, but in these matters, it is illuminating. I Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-90476387625648435472012-10-03T00:33:23.526-04:002012-10-03T00:33:23.526-04:00Yes, Richardson's an interesting case. The old...Yes, Richardson's an interesting case. The older 18th century novels though belonged to the 18th century readers, who were almost all upper class or professional people. I think there's a different wind blowing with the mass audiences Dickens and his successors reached. Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523194846272870013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-28382000557728737972012-10-03T00:10:49.866-04:002012-10-03T00:10:49.866-04:00Oh, I just realized that I told a whopper because ...Oh, I just realized that I told a whopper because I have reread some of Defoe (Richardson published him), and when I was a child, I read "Gulliver's Travels" many times--it was one of the books I owned. And I have also read the famous shorter pieces by Swift many times.<br /><br />Always liked that epitaph for Swift: "He has gone where savage indignation can lacerate his heart Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-15283203681178965252012-10-03T00:07:05.419-04:002012-10-03T00:07:05.419-04:00Oh. I guess I'd better be honored that you rea...Oh. I guess I'd better be honored that you read my most recent novel, Dale!<br /><br />That's an interesting point. Long before Dickens, there's the "savage indignation" of Jonathan Swift. And certainly Fielding, my favorite novelist from the eighteenth century (I have a mad love for "Tom Jones," the only novel from that era that I have reread multiple times), was Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-67804754280611172592012-10-02T23:34:58.122-04:002012-10-02T23:34:58.122-04:00(Oh, by "modern" in the my first sentenc...(Oh, by "modern" in the my first sentence should have been "recent." I have no idea what people are writing nowadays.)<br />Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523194846272870013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-60885250882152117582012-10-02T23:29:08.366-04:002012-10-02T23:29:08.366-04:00I've read almost no modern fiction, so I reall...I've read almost no modern fiction, so I really couldn't say. But literary fiction has deep liberal roots: you could almost say it's been a liberal, populist enterprise from the start. English poetry and history, have conservative founders who are still revered as classics -- Shakespeare and Carlyle are as conservative as they come -- but fiction? English fiction comes down to us Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523194846272870013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-7397108721841702002012-10-02T22:26:40.194-04:002012-10-02T22:26:40.194-04:00Allison,
Just got rid of the post from you that w...Allison,<br /><br />Just got rid of the post from you that was four comments up, and which the third up referred to--sheesh, this is silly! I didn't think that the remains could be deleted, but eventually they went away. Like the cheshire cat, they vanished slowly and in pieces. Sometimes I do not understand the internet.<br /><br />That's a good list, albeit short.<br /><br />Gary,<br />Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-47050516988183179762012-10-02T22:20:49.746-04:002012-10-02T22:20:49.746-04:00Perhaps the free market is at work. And, at heart...Perhaps the free market is at work. And, at heart, isn't the free market one of the tenets of conservatism?<br /><br />If there were indeed a market for novels with a conservative world view, more would be available.<br /><br />No?Gary Dietzhttp://www.6by7reports.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-22587679128603324952012-10-02T22:15:53.569-04:002012-10-02T22:15:53.569-04:00Drat. Computer issues. Mark tried to post, then it...Drat. Computer issues. Mark tried to post, then it came out under my name, etc. Then the phone rang. In any case, yes, Wendell Berry and I'd add Marilynne Robinson to that, also. There are a few out there, but not so many. AllisonAllisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-43802488384290235792012-10-02T20:23:52.523-04:002012-10-02T20:23:52.523-04:00Oh, I liked that comment--even if nobody else got ...Oh, I liked that comment--even if nobody else got to see it! Wendell Berry: good idea. I haven't read his fiction.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-50930418336052534382012-10-02T19:20:57.101-04:002012-10-02T19:20:57.101-04:00Martyn,
Interesting that you picked that book. Th...Martyn,<br /><br />Interesting that you picked that book. There's a D. G. Myers bit on Franzen that picks up the idea of the lack of conservatives somewhere, either on his Commentary blog or on his own blog. Not sure--my head is a battered sieve. Definitely influenced my thinking, wherever it is. I'll have to look it up.<br /><br />One imagines that failures of imagination that people donMarly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-61552525515673872222012-10-02T19:15:58.023-04:002012-10-02T19:15:58.023-04:00Robbi,
No, wasn't thinking of you, even if yo...Robbi,<br /><br />No, wasn't thinking of you, even if you are a feisty little habanero!<br /><br />And I don't think that is common--that mixtures. I see a lot of chumminess that involves similar stands. But good for you.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-27500431772610779522012-10-02T19:06:29.007-04:002012-10-02T19:06:29.007-04:00And by the way, if you look at my FB Wall, you wil...And by the way, if you look at my FB Wall, you will see many people who are not at all of my political complexion.Robbi N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04881145195435485238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-49661137863637767992012-10-02T19:05:15.402-04:002012-10-02T19:05:15.402-04:00I'm sorry if I've been one of those people...I'm sorry if I've been one of those people who showed a general distaste for the conservative. Perhaps it's because I grew up with racists and had to quell my response to that view. But conservatism is not necessarily equivalent to racism at all, or homophobia, or anti-semitism, though these often come together in one package. Being on the other end of anti-semitism and sexism has Robbi N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04881145195435485238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-46210965652136971162012-10-02T17:59:05.848-04:002012-10-02T17:59:05.848-04:00I suppose that's my suspicion. I picked up The...I suppose that's my suspicion. I picked up <i>The Corrections</i> by Franzen today again, and was freshly struck by his moments of real contempt for characters on that side of the spectrum, who were paper-thin caricatures. The zeitgeist seems to push otherwise talented writers in that direction—there's a certain sort of narrative that doesn't allow for the existence of compassionate, Martyn Wendellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16706046502490971084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-45626626858983781642012-10-02T17:51:43.681-04:002012-10-02T17:51:43.681-04:00P. S. I do have an idea for a novel in mind that h...P. S. I do have an idea for a novel in mind that has little to do with politics, though it has something to do with religion... an element often seen by others as automatically conservative.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-67779525271028889092012-10-02T17:49:44.317-04:002012-10-02T17:49:44.317-04:00So maybe . . . maybe novelists are in part respons...So maybe . . . maybe novelists are in part responsible for the predominant attitude of scorn because they adopt that lovelessness? Because they refuse to make fully human, fully loved characters who are conservative in outlook?<br /><br />Yes, perhaps it's a fear that a conservative character could only come from a conservative writer? So one would rather narrow the window of sight?Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-73883997591475266202012-10-02T17:38:27.144-04:002012-10-02T17:38:27.144-04:00Maybe it's for you to do, Marly! How interesti...Maybe it's for you to do, Marly! How interesting though. What you're saying seems accurate—in all the contemporary fiction I've read over the last few years, there's nary a sympathetic conservative character with any real depth to be found. I wonder if it's the one place where it is implicitly believed that sympathy would imply condoning in some way, as though the author wouldMartyn Wendellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16706046502490971084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-13025467795012195972012-10-02T17:28:53.044-04:002012-10-02T17:28:53.044-04:00You know, I've never read Ayn Rand...
I guess...You know, I've never read Ayn Rand...<br /><br />I guess that I mean somebody who treats all as though they were interesting and worthy.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-39713941520414299752012-10-02T17:18:24.701-04:002012-10-02T17:18:24.701-04:00I've never read with this in mind, but I'm...I've never read with this in mind, but I'm sure Ayn Rand would be considered someone who has created sympathetic conservative characters. I'm not sure she ever treated liberals the same.<br />Greg Langleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-30749364656006203492012-10-02T16:49:44.914-04:002012-10-02T16:49:44.914-04:00I'm borrowing these from facebook, so I'll...I'm borrowing these from facebook, so I'll just identify them by initial... I found the first interesting because it's a clear response from a conservative voice finding the post accurate. And I liked the idea of learning charitable reading and writing in the second one.<br /><br />NR<br />Indeed, Marly. I'm ever so grateful for your post. We're that group disdained as those &facebook excerpts that I found interesting--noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-39913203940633766312012-10-02T16:39:50.992-04:002012-10-02T16:39:50.992-04:00Hmm, that's interesting! I don't watch t.v...Hmm, that's interesting! I don't watch t.v., so that's a whole area where I know nothing.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-27120961992954640472012-10-02T16:32:10.391-04:002012-10-02T16:32:10.391-04:00very interesting point, Marly. Thinking about this...very interesting point, Marly. Thinking about this, it occurs to me that a lot of writers are ready to mock liberals and conservatives, alike. Personally, i find it curious that while few seem to want to get into the conservative psyche, many relish getting into the minds of all sorts of unsavory--and evil--people. <br /><br />Compared to you and probably most of your blog/fb/twitter readers, i zephyrhttp://www.thegarden.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.com