tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post1120376942529381428..comments2024-03-20T16:46:13.343-04:00Comments on Marly Youmans / The Palace at 2:00 a.m. / poems, stories, novels: Unskilling, uncreationMarly Youmanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-34705630749937053662011-09-22T08:43:13.801-04:002011-09-22T08:43:13.801-04:00zoe,
Interesting. I'll have to dig out my Bor...zoe,<br /><br />Interesting. I'll have to dig out my Borges. What a mess, that office! <br /><br />I was thinking of a better known story, "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote." Do you know that one? It is a sort of document--critical essay--about a supposed twentieth-century writer and how he struggles to get past making a simple translation of "Don Quixote." Well, you Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-14482524549313236542011-09-22T07:11:32.461-04:002011-09-22T07:11:32.461-04:00"homenaje a cesar paladion" (borges)
and..."homenaje a cesar paladion" (borges)<br />and it was written in 1963, so actually, this guy is even copying the idea of copying the writing of others...<br /><br />(sorry, i couldn't remember the title yesterday.)zoehttp://zoe-in-wonderland.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-83926081247654936132011-09-21T23:54:53.312-04:002011-09-21T23:54:53.312-04:00Definitely. Although I suppose he is saying that h...Definitely. Although I suppose he is saying that he does recognize a thing's importance when he steals, appropriates, etc.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-21673585265577298412011-09-21T23:35:41.987-04:002011-09-21T23:35:41.987-04:00Perhaps because there is SO much 'content'...Perhaps because there is SO much 'content' in the world - people turn their attention to the wrapping instead?<br />LIke... spoiled children who have everything they want, we no longer recognize the importance of what we have?Paul Digbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-28769985415947324802011-09-21T23:26:57.376-04:002011-09-21T23:26:57.376-04:00Yes, it is the wrapping that is "important.&q...Yes, it is the wrapping that is "important."<br /><br />The way Warhol soup cans or Warhol S&H green stamps were dependent on the conversaton, the shock, the controversy, the tedious fascination.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-28511629915122987532011-09-21T23:01:43.151-04:002011-09-21T23:01:43.151-04:00"I am not stealing this. I am simply moving ..."I am not stealing this. I am simply moving it from one place to another place."<br /><br />It is not defensible or indefensible, but it is very disrespectful to use someone else's work and then present it as one's own.<br /><br />That has nothing much to do with art, (avant garde or otherwise). It has more to do with manners and respect for other people and their strengths (Paul Digbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-70898250720857070992011-09-21T22:55:26.665-04:002011-09-21T22:55:26.665-04:00Oh, Pierre Menard! Yes. Hard not to think of that ...Oh, Pierre Menard! Yes. Hard not to think of that one.<br /><br />To flip our usual ideas about art and education and plagiarism and so forth upside down and be, as Laura says, an enfant terrible?<br /><br />To promote the end of art, so that there is no longer anything to write about because everything is used up?<br /><br />To be outrageous and in doing so mock and emphasize the recent trends Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-86752178658008620412011-09-21T17:14:10.071-04:002011-09-21T17:14:10.071-04:00hmmm. when borges wrote a story about someone who ...hmmm. when borges wrote a story about someone who made his career doing this, he couched the act in such a way as to not make it seem... appealing, as a choice. <br /><br />why would such a thing be one's goal?zoehttp://zoe-in-wonderland.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-84934343943918892142011-09-19T10:09:19.610-04:002011-09-19T10:09:19.610-04:00I have begun typing The Grand Academy of Lagado ch...I have begun typing The Grand Academy of Lagado chapter from <i>Gulliver's Travels</i>. I am finding it highly meaningful.<br /><br />Chapter V.<br /><br />The author permitted to see the grand academy of Lagado. The academy largely described. The arts wherein the professors employ themselves.<br /><br />his academy is not an entire single building, but a continuation of several houses on the Pot Boyhttp://thepalaceat2.blogspot.com/2006/03/pot-boy-tells-all.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-53739074959784586522011-09-19T09:53:04.936-04:002011-09-19T09:53:04.936-04:00And this one is particularly interesting in an aud...And this one is particularly interesting in an audaciously boring sort of way:<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/goldsmith/goldsmith_boring.html</a>the Pot Boyhttp://thepalaceat2.blogspot.com/2006/03/ask-pot-boy.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-56093152926143379372011-09-19T09:23:39.157-04:002011-09-19T09:23:39.157-04:00For anybody who wants to see more about Kenneth Go...For anybody who wants to see more about Kenneth Goldsmith, his "word processing," and his ideas:<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">http://thecorrespondingsociety.blogspot.com/2008/10/lonely-christopher-in-conversation-with.html</a><br /><br />Down in the scullery we find Goldsmith's books boring (as he finds them), but we don't have that much fun talking about them either.the Pot Boyhttp://thepalaceat2.blogspot.com/2007/04/pot-boy-meditates-on-tea-cosy.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-35262914906210378562011-09-19T09:19:31.753-04:002011-09-19T09:19:31.753-04:00Dale,
I have always felt that I could do two big ...Dale,<br /><br />I have always felt that I could do two big things well but not three. <br /><br />I got my tenure in five years (two years early) and promptly quit because I was faced with three things: doing a good job of teaching; my writing; starting a family and raising children.<br /><br />But I also think the academy a dangerous place for a writer for a whole lot of reasons. If you had a Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-17101981724289496472011-09-19T08:45:44.929-04:002011-09-19T08:45:44.929-04:00Ah, so you're another recovering academic? The...Ah, so you're another recovering academic? There are people doing great work in academic jobs, but I really don't know how they do it: I'd sink like a stone.Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523194846272870013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-83814556254632872922011-09-19T08:37:00.893-04:002011-09-19T08:37:00.893-04:00Dale,
Part of it is to be talked about and get ot...Dale,<br /><br />Part of it is to be talked about and get other people to talk about you (and along the way to get published in "Poetry" and "The Chronicle of Higher Education and get a plummy job out of it all!) One has to be able to talk wittily about it all as well.<br /><br /><br /><br />I think I'll go read <a rel="nofollow">Gulliver's Travels</a> now.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-67447937092425252932011-09-19T08:31:08.193-04:002011-09-19T08:31:08.193-04:00Robbi,
I don't think I really said what I tho...Robbi,<br /><br />I don't think I really said what I thought of the avant garde, not wanting to prejudice any readers! I simply presented him and his own words.<br /><br />XDMarly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-51277515095220876742011-09-19T08:29:42.049-04:002011-09-19T08:29:42.049-04:00Mary,
One example of his assignments in that clas...Mary,<br /><br />One example of his assignments in that class was to appropriate the work of another and then present and defend it...<br /><br />I sometimes think of going back because I have two children in private colleges, and I liked teaching (although giving it up right after tenure probably didn't suggest that!) But English departments don't always seem so appealing these days. Andmarlyhttp://www.marlyyoumans.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-86768520040766124142011-09-19T00:26:37.373-04:002011-09-19T00:26:37.373-04:00Hey, beats workin'.
(Actually it doesn't:...Hey, beats workin'.<br /><br />(Actually it doesn't: it's difficult for me to imagine the people doing these things as happy, interested, or interesting. But then I've never understood why people who have nothing to say get all torqued about it. So say nothing: what's hard about that?)<br /><br />What Penn is thinking of, I couldn't say.Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14523194846272870013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-21496468220351908102011-09-18T23:15:55.798-04:002011-09-18T23:15:55.798-04:00I agree with you about the so-called avant garde, ...I agree with you about the so-called avant garde, in poetry at least. But is there a chance that sometimes it might be meant to bring self-consciousness into these acts of appropriation?Robbi N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04881145195435485238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-45996631817843130532011-09-18T23:11:24.032-04:002011-09-18T23:11:24.032-04:00PS Idiocy like this is one of the reasons I left a...PS Idiocy like this is one of the reasons I left academia. <br />MaryHow to contact Mary: marybullington53@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08174581825078147922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-11338271536468706372011-09-18T23:08:34.872-04:002011-09-18T23:08:34.872-04:00There might be something worthwhile in "retyp...There might be something worthwhile in "retyping" or plagiarizing or appropriating other folks' work if the thief actually READ the words he was stealing. But most of the time (as all good teachers know) they just copy and paste--. If you ask the average student plagiarist specific questions about the text ("Why did you use this particular word? What do you mean in this How to contact Mary: marybullington53@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08174581825078147922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-75907676811835168392011-09-18T22:01:08.745-04:002011-09-18T22:01:08.745-04:00Actually I did think he was putting us on the firs...Actually I did think he was putting us on the first time I encountered him.<br /><br />But now I think he is as clever as Warhol in how he is using the system. He's got Marjorie Perloff and Poetry and the Chronicle and piles of "books."<br /><br />And what about how he is being embraced... He's not at Podunk U, unnoticed, and publishing in some stapled kitchen-table production.Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-21097450246099157242011-09-18T21:40:22.521-04:002011-09-18T21:40:22.521-04:00Oh, he's just putting us on. I hope. Otherwise...Oh, he's just putting us on. I hope. Otherwise, the whole shtick is rather pathetic. And, even so.Laura Frankstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528540633399368216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-59867387043128476702011-09-18T21:34:31.460-04:002011-09-18T21:34:31.460-04:00The interesting (if that is the right word) thing ...The interesting (if that is the right word) thing is that he has an academic platform--he is at Penn, and this article comes from the Chronicle, and he has even published in "Poetry" (essay and poetry.) How can you be avant garde and own the academy?<br /><br />I read somewhere that he claimed that writing was 50 years behind visual arts and that was why he was taking Duchamp as his Marly Youmanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377938366750387442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11539948.post-57561102042167249472011-09-18T21:23:50.323-04:002011-09-18T21:23:50.323-04:00Self-annointed enfants terribles are so boring.Self-annointed enfants terribles are so boring.Laura Frankstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02528540633399368216noreply@blogger.com